How cheap can an upgrade to a family PC be?

[anandasim]

Hi All, particularly GTO,

The family PC, an Athlon single core (maybe it's even a Duron - yechh, why did they make it sound like a prophylactic?) has always had some quirks with the USB sensing and heat in summer. Well, for it's age, it's done a good term of service and I'm thinking of updating / upgrading it with minimum of parts. Now, when I mention family, they're basically on the web, in Java or Flash games and interactions, email and cloud computing. With typical school homework and Microsoft Office.

There is some 3D graphics game play like Age of Myths and the current PC drags a bit but really, if the current PC can hop, skip and jump, a slightly faster, more modern dual core PC should be ample. There's no video ripping / rendering and no audio ripping / rendering.

So, was looking at gto's budget recommendations.

I'll make another pass at Anandtech (no relation) but I have not seen the CPU comparison bar charts for Intel E1600 vs AMD Athlonx2 240.

The mobos that gto recommends are the Gigabyte G41M-ES2L for the Intel and Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H for the AMD. Are there any alternatives? Usually I spend time poring through motherboard specs and compare but this time, maybe I will rest on the shoulders of those who have already done the work.

How far back in performance in general duties are these budget mobo and CPU compared to the medium price workhorse spec? I'll re-use the HD and other parts. Of course, Windows 7 capable.

Another more expensive solution, but useful in summer to lug the machine to a cooler room, is a low cost notebook. There are Christmassy deals that easily go below AUD 1000. Anyone seen really cheap but useful deals?

Any discussion useful....

[gto-pontiac]

currently i'm working one for the Xmas specs.

if you are going down the road of budget system then i can't stress to go down the AMD solution, the CPU are cheap, MoBo have better integrated Video. the upgraded version of 780G to 785G are lot better and runs slightly cooler than the 780G.
match that with AMD Athlon X2 5050e witch is 45w cpu so it runs lot cooler than any other AMD CPUs.

the alternative for the Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H is ASUS version of the same chip set. I'm just a Gigabyte funboy, i'm not saying that ASUS is bad they are same or better brand, but i had few issue with them RMAing a 1.5year old MoBo once before.

compared to the mid performance well you might see few second in office, not much i just build a smiler system for a mate and he is happy with it, can play games nothing too much but yah, but if you do high FPS games then well you will see the difference but you mentioned Family.
works well as HTPC as well if you want to go down that road later on.

MoBo Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H $94
CPU: amd x2 5050e $89 PC case gear or x2 240 $69
Ram:2GB/ 4GB kit Kingston $52/$104

should be OK for normal use.

for notbooks JB have some good deals.
or you can pick up a netbook HP MINI 110 from centrecom for $399 so tempting

[anandasim]

Thanks gto, I know I can rely on your speedy reply and insightful knowledge. Tell the Japanese cook at the back of the house that and Bob's your uncle.

I will have a look at the parts you mentioned. Does the AMD have hardware virtualisation? Doesn't matter, it's a family PC, just wondering.

The HP Mini looks Re-Placed at that price. Is it a Ion (what is an Ion) or is it an Atom 280? Does it have long battery life life say the msi Wind 100?

[gto-pontiac]

i think the some of the amd cpu have hardware visualisation, have to check,
and that HP is Atom 280, 1gb, slower 5200RPM HDD. so its about to be replaced by the Ion chip but stil for 399 not a bad buy.

[RDee]

Ananda

I would stay away from the G41M-ES2L because, oddly, it doesn't have a digital video output port, just VGA.

One difficulty is what case to choose for a low cost desktop. Perhaps a reasonable choice is one of the Coolermaster Elite series.
For a micro ATX case I wouldn't go for anything cheaper than this:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?mai ... s_id=11074
I think a case fan is extra.

I have been having problems with one of our PCs with a cheap "USB-in-front" case. It has been overheating and air exchange is only provided by the power supply fan. There is no provision for mounting a case fan.
It seems to be under control now after carefully cleaning the processor fan and knocking out two external 5.25" drive covers and replacing them with fly wire.

RDee

[gto-pontiac]

talking about a great deal on laptop check out catch of the day.
http://www.catchoftheday.com.au/
MSI VX600 15.4” Premium Core2Duo Notebook
2.1GHz, 320GB, Dedicated Graphics, 2 Yr Warranty
for $599+$15 post.
not bad i say.

[anandasim]

I would stay away from the G41M-ES2L because, oddly, it doesn't have a digital video output port, just VGA.

Thanks for pointing that out mate. I prefer DVI always.

One difficulty is what case to choose for a low cost desktop. Perhaps a reasonable choice is one of the Coolermaster Elite series.

I was thinking of re-using the case that the current family PC has - it is quite a well made one, hand selected when I used to be more keen, not a name brand but well built, not one of those cut your hands as you work with the boards jobs.

I have been having problems with one of our PCs with a cheap "USB-in-front" case. It has been overheating and air exchange is only provided by the power supply fan. There is no provision for mounting a case fan.
It seems to be under control now after carefully cleaning the processor fan and knocking out two external 5.25" drive covers and replacing them with fly wire.

The current case / system has overheating issues in summer. Some years ago, I put in a standard size chassis no name brand fan and that helps a bit.

One thing with mobos - sometimes you have a good experience, other times not. I have generally worked with ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, Abit mobos.

A good one to me is when the device drivers are always well supported (by luck maybe) with any OS, and there are not hardware / IRQ fights (had a problem with my bleeding edge Abit dual Celeron 370 mobo) and it just works without weird hanging or USB device going missing. That's when DIY PC works. DIY PC doesn't work if the PC for the life of operations always has this or that quirk - does not shut off clean or hangs due to hardware quirk or USB does not recognise device arbitrarily etc....

Still looking and hoping to enjoy looking despite the dentist saying I need $$$$....

[anandasim]

talking about a great deal on laptop check out catch of the day.
http://www.catchoftheday.com.au/
MSI VX600 15.4” Premium Core2Duo Notebook
2.1GHz, 320GB, Dedicated Graphics, 2 Yr Warranty
for $599+$15 post.
not bad i say.

Looks nice. I have not bought an MSI notebook, I know their mobos well.

There is Celeron Tosh
http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/19220

and there is an Acer
http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/19215

[anandasim]

Reading Toms Hardware article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ath ... 59-10.html

Says the AMD 5050e is fair idle but at peak output not great.

Confused about numbering.

CPL pdf numbers the AMDs as 240, 245, 250, 540, 545
How does that relate to the 5050e?

Intel numbers are E5300, E6300.
How does that relate to the E1600?

More to read....

[gto-pontiac]

CPL pdf numbers the AMDs as 240, 145, 150. How does that relate to the 5050e?

the 5050e uses on generation before the current architecture so it is slower and don't handle the instruction as efficient as the new one out of the 3 240 are probably the best one but they do use 20w more than the 5050e, if the heat is the issue then 5050e is the way to go but if the CPU don't max out then 240 is more effective and slightly faster than the 5050e. and 1's are Sempron rather than Athelon.

Intel numbers are E5300, E6300. How does that relate to the E1600?

with intel E1's are like the cerilons of Pentium naming. so they have less cashes, runs at lower FSBs. E6300 are popular but older than the E5300 (i think). But they do use the same architecture. just matter of what it got and havn't got. E1600 are cheap good for day to day operations.

I still do get confused with all the model numbers some E6's are newer than E5's but soem E5's are newer than E6's........

its just matter of what you want for the CPU if you want them to run cool then lower end and low wattage is better but you sacrifice on the performance, if you want have fare grant then you need to go higher but you'll have higher power bill and the end of the month.
i'm using old AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ for my HTPC and it handles almost anything as in media wise, and it do good job on media Encoding 45min episode of TVshow to DVD takes around 35-50min, of corce in my main computer running Q9300 beat it by almost 5-10min. the 4400+ runs cool uses 45w on full load witch it don't, when i was using it as a main PC for a few weeks it played games, did what i needed.
and 5050e is slightly faster than 4400+ and its newer. and it gets 3.2 on the WEI(Windows Experience Index), the Desktop performance for windows Aero got the 3.2, but oddly it got 4.8 on the business and gaming performance. The processor gets 5.1.
i should have the xmas recommendation up by the week end (hoply might have a job interview and trial over the week end so see how it goes).

here is some CPU charts
for 5050e
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... Core+5050e
for 240
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... +II+X2+240
for 140
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... empron+140
for E6300
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+2.80GHz
for E5300
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup. ... 40+2.60GHz

[anandasim]

the 5050e uses on generation before the current architecture so it is slower and don't handle the instruction as efficient as the new one out of the 3 240 are probably the best one but they do use 20w more than the 5050e, if the heat is the issue then 5050e is the way to go but if the CPU don't max out then 240 is more effective and slightly faster than the 5050e. and 1's are Sempron rather than Athelon.

Ok, thanks for that. But I don't see 5050e in the cpl, msy pricelists?

[gto-pontiac]

yah 5050e is not avaliabale at CPL or MSY only place i know that they still got is a pccase gear.
otherwise get the AMD 240. can't go wrong with it.

[gto-pontiac]

my xmas edition is up!!

[anandasim]

Thanks gto!
Was drooling over the Tosh T130 type netbook I saw. Not budgeted for, though.

Ananda

[anandasim]

Latest news is I haven't solved that random PATA IDE DVD drive not working issue on this mobo yet. Could be BIOS bug, could be some hardware related issues but that's not bothering me much yet.

The machine is running sweet and stable and the speed is heaps faster on Microsoft Age of Myths.

Our desktops have not been set to sleep much over the years. But I noticed on my own several years old AMD Athlon 3800+ dual core machine, that with Windows 7, the machine can successfully go to sleep (not hibernation) after 10 mins. It switches off the power supply fan, hard disks, even puts the screens on standby. Very impressive. To wake the machine up, I press the power button on the front panel, the machine gets back to working order.

On this family PC, more modern mobo, new PSU but it can't go to sleep properly. The PATA IDE does not switch off. When I press the power button or any button, the machine does not respond, have to reboot the machine by holding down the power button 4 secs. And the machien does a cold boot.

My question is, what are the requirements for a successful Windows 7 sleep and wake? Works on my old mobo but not my new one.

[anandasim]

Ok, much better.

I had the BIOS on hybrid - I set it back to normal. There are sooooo many BIOS settings now in that mobo, it's just ultra na plus nerdy.

And I did some physical plugging, unplugging. And set to HD jumpers to Cable Select instead of Master, Slave.

The slow startup time was as suspected, the BIOS detecting hard drives. I am playing with a small, old PATA IDE Seagate and right now, it's spinning up fast (I can hear the spin up) and the BIOS just finds it, finds the DVD which is also PATA IDE and just gets going.

Next, tried Sleep and Hibernate. Works like a charm. Machine quickly goes to sleep. One press on the front panel power button and in a few secs, it's awake.

Now.... the quiet little IDE Port 2 errors I'm getting.........