Small Form Factor System Specs

[aussieboykie]

GTO

I'm on the verge of building (or buying) a new system to replace an aging Pentium IV machine. I read your most recent mid-high Intel recommendation and it looks great. My only hesitation is the size of the cabinet. My current system is Small Form Factor and it fits easily under the desktop stand I use for my 22" monitor. If I get a tower, or even a small tower, it will either have to occupy space on the desktop or go under the desk on the floor. Neither option is ideal. My other half will have plenty to say if it goes on the desktop and if it goes underneath it will be vulnerable to getting kicked and access to the USB slots, speaker and mic connections, and DVD will be a pain.

Are you able to recommend a SFF configuration that is similar to your tower specs? I plan to go 64-bit and would prefer to start with 6GB RAM although I'd be OK with 4GB as long as there are slots available to add more without having to throw away the original memory sticks.

Regards, AB

[RDee]

AB

Until GTO can provide a more informative answer here are some thoughts.

The choice of case and motherboard are important and will influence your other options. Here are two scenarios:

Micro ATX MB: Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H, ticks all the boxes except for USB3.0, allows up to 16GB of RAM and Intel i3,i5 and i7 processors
Case: Antec NSK 2480, Includes a 280 Watt EarthWatt PSU, Micro ATX boards. Note air vent on top of case.

ATX MB: Gigabyte GA-H55-USB3, should do everything you need and includes 2 x USB3.0 ports
Needs a bigger case: LianLi PC-C32 a fine case but no PSU included.

The first option has an inexpensive case but lacks USB 3.0. Will the larger Lian Li case, and more expensive option, fit under your desktop stand?
Both options rely on the inbuilt MB Intel graphics which should be OK if you are not into gaming.
I have to admit to being an Intel, Antec and Gigabyte fan so this no doubt excludes many other good solutions. I assume you are not looking for a commercial solution from Dell, HP, Acer etc.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Mot ... uctID=3309
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Mot ... A-H55-USB3
http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MTE0Nw==
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?mai ... ts_id=5979

RDee

[aussieboykie]

Thanks RDee

Some more food for thought.

Regards, AB

[RDee]

Opps a typo.

The Earth Watts PSU for the Antec Case is 380 Watt not 280 Watt.

RDee

[gto-pontiac]

Depending on what you want, you can go ether Intel socket 1366 or 1156.
with socket 1366 you will PAY more for the M-ATX motherboard,e. unless you do lots of VM and needs that extra 2GB of RAM you should go for that 1156. And also do you GAME???

with socket 1156, P55 or H57 chip set, like Gigabyte GA-H57M-USB3 mATX Motherboard with Intel i5 750(NO built in Video), 8GB of RAM if you want to have 8, or you can go down to 4.
so here is few small factor.

CPU intel i7 860 $334 (no video onboard)
MoBo Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H (No USB3) $115
Video if you game then 5850 $345
Video if you don't game then 5770 $169
RAM 4G Kit DDR3 1333 G.Skill-Ripjaws $139 (x2 if you want 8GB)
case Antec NSK2480B Case with 380W PSU $135 (might want to change that PSU if you want to run 5850)
total: $1068 (4GB and 5850)
total 1031 (8GB with 5770)
Add HDD of your choice

OR
CPU intel i7 930 $339
MoBo EVGA X58 SLI Micro mATX Motherboard $279
Video if you game then 5850 $345
Video if you don't game then 5770 $169
RAM 6GB G.Skill F3-10666CL9T-6GBNQ $209 PcCaseGear
case Antec NSK2480B Case with 380W PSU $135 (might want to change that PSU to at least 500W)
Total: $1131 (5770)

Performance wise thire is not much difference between i7 930 and i7 860. so its upto you.

[RDee]

AB,

GTO's proposed systems are quite powerful and will give you a well above average performance. If you want to save a few hundred dollars and only want more modest graphics performance there is a simpler configuration using the motherboard in GTO's first suggestion.
If you opt for an Intel Core i5 650, 660 or 661, all of which have onboard graphics capability, you can use the inbuilt GA-H55M-UD2H motherboard graphic ports (Enhanced Intel HD Graphics is not available unless the processor has integrated graphics). This will save more than $100 on the CPU and avoid the need for a separate graphics card saving many more dollars. The resultant graphic capability will be fine for HD video and most other applications except for serious gaming and you will still have the full range of video ports types that are available on the motherboard.
The Core i5 661 ($235) appears to be the pick of the bunch:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0
Graphics performance for Enhanced Intel HD Graphics here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/ ... html#sect0

There will also be a significant power reduction if this is a consideration.

RDee

[aussieboykie]

Many thanks GTO and RDee

I'm not a gamer so the i5 with on board graphics could be an option. On the other hand the i7 combined with the EVGA Micro X58 and 5770 is very enticing. I'll ponder a while before making a final decision.

With the i7 configuration, am I right to assume that with no overclocking the built-in PSU should be adequate and the standard Intel supplied CPU cooler should also be OK?

Regards, AB

[gto-pontiac]

with i7 yes you might just getaway with the PSU, and HSF is fine with Intel one that come with it, but its loud when its running fully.
with i5 on-board video they are dual-core NOT quad-core, so if you are not a gamer then i would still go for the 17 860 or even the i7 930 (got this baby with 12GB of RAM) and add a cheap video card like 5750or even something cheaper like 5670 at $116.

[aussieboykie]

[quote="gto-pontiac":Re-Placed]with i7 yes you might just getaway with the PSU, and HSF is fine with Intel one that come with it, but its loud when its running fully.
with i5 on-board video they are dual-core NOT quad-core, so if you are not a gamer then i would still go for the 17 860 or even the i7 930 (got this baby with 12GB of RAM) and add a cheap video card like 5750or even something cheaper like 5670 at $116.[/quote:Re-Placed]
OK, I'm convinced - I'll go for the i7 930. I have a PCI-e GEForce 9400GT that was given to me by a friend. I assume that would do the job for non-gaming graphics?

HSF = high speed fan? Do you mean the stock standard CPU cooling fan that comes with Intel CPUs? I'm keen to minimise noise. Is there is a better/quieter solution for the CPU, keeping in mind that it needs to fit inside the Antec case? I'm happy to spend a few dollars more.

Thanks again, AB

[gto-pontiac]

yah 9400GT will work fine

and HSF = Heat Sink Fan.
the one that come with the Intel CPU is slightly noisy but will do the job fine.
with less noisy HSF you might want to look at Noctua HN-C12P $99 or Scythe Big Shuriken CPU Cooler
Motherboard you get from PcCaseGear, and same with RAM well you can get everything from them. except the case they run out so you might need to source it from other place like CPL they have it for $135 fro silver and $3 more for Black

[aussieboykie]

Thanks GTO

The Noctua looks good but it's 114mm high with fan and the case is only 140mm high so it might not fit. The Big Shuriken also looks good but an otherwise glowing review says.. "With the close proximity of the fin mass to the pushpins, a bolt-thru mounting system would have been much better. Getting fingers underneath to engage the pins is extremely difficult. If the motherboard is already installed, it is near impossible."

Do you have experience with either of these?

Regards, AB

Edit 24/4: This review suggests that the Big Shuriken is much less of a problem when being installed in a new system.

Edit 25/4: I bit the bullet and ordered the i7 930 based system that GTO specified and added a Samsung SH-B083A Blu-ray DVD Combo Drive and a Big Shuriken CPU heat sink. The NSK2480B case is on back order at PC Case Gear so it looks like it will be a few weeks before I can report back on how it all works out.

[gto-pontiac]

Nice System AB.
you will never look back when you feel the power of 8 threads and 6GB of RAM.
i'm just waiting for my bank to accumulate some money before i can go and buy a new HSF, just to keep the system running quieter . but have FUN with the new system.

[gto-pontiac]

Hi AB i have sort of bad news..... it seems that 380W PSU might be pushing a bit,depending on the Amp on the 12V rail. might be worth a try and use that PSU then see if you can get a stable boot, it all depends on what you intend on running i guess, if you only have 1 HDD then you should be OK since VGA 9400 don't use that much power. See what happens and if you can't get it going then you might need to invest in better PSU i'm running my i7 on 500W with 12GB of RAM, 5HDD and GT250 as my VGA and it seems to be having bit of power problem, but my PSU is almost 4 years old so that could be taken to consideration of 12V rail Amp.

[aussieboykie]

GTO

As it happens I changed my mind and have decided to order a Gigabyte Radeon HD5770 1GB to go with the rest of the new gear so from what you are saying a bigger PSU is probably going to be required. I have an old Pentium 4 system that I'm about to retire - I'll check to see what its PSU rating is - I might be able to reuse it. If not, any advice on what to go for?

Cheers, AB

[gto-pontiac]

HD5770 thats a nice card and very good value for performance, i would recommend something along the line of 650W would be plenty and have headroom for more HDDs.
with my recommendation you can't go wrong with Corsair HX-650 Power Supply @$157 at MSY, if you are bit tight on the budget then CoolerMaster Silent Pro M600 or the Antec EarthWatts 650 @$105 is not a bad choice.
sorry for the inconvenience
GTO

[Stephen]

I have been only purchasing PSU's that pass the 80PLUS certification and you can calculate the savings over here.

[aussieboykie]

After a few weeks delay (the Antec case was out of stock) the components arrived last week and my new PC was assembled and commissioned over the weekend. The end result is certainly impressive. It is very fast and whisper quiet. I have not had time to exercise a full range of applications but everything I have done so far suggests that I will not be disappointed. If anyone else is considering building a neat, compact, powerful, and quiet system then I can vouch for the fact that this configuration does the job. However, I can also attest to the fact that assembly is tricky, to say the least.

From research beforehand I knew that mounting the Big Shuriken CPU cooler would be a challenge but since I would be able to install it with the motherboard outside the case I thought I'd be OK. Well.... I spent at least half an hour and there were times when I thought I'd have to give up and settle for the stock Intel cooler. The two push pins furthest from the edge of the motherboard are almost impossible to get to as they are very close to a large non-removable heatsink that sits right behind the Shuriken. Even the two push pins that are relatively unimpeded are very difficult to operate. On a difficulty scale of 1-10 I'd rate this as an 8 or a 9.

The case is very compact, which is why I chose it, but that means that the motherboard is a tight fit. I eased it into place and then screwed it onto the case only to discover that the SATA headers on the motherboard are on an edge that is very close to an internal wall of the case and they are oriented at right angles to the case, making it extremely difficult to connect hard drive and DVD cables (yellow highlight shows where they are). After 10 minutes getting nowhere fast, I relented and unscrewed the board thinking I'd connect the cables and then reseat the motherboard. To my dismay, there was simply no way of easing the board back into place with the SATA cables connected. I was forced to unplug the cables and position the board without securing it, then fiddle for another 20-30 minutes before all 3 SATA cables were connected. Difficulty rating of 7-8. The air in my vicinity was well and truly blue by now!

At this point I screwed the board back down, connected a display, keyboard, and mouse, crossed my fingers and hit the power switch. To my immense relief. none of the above had damaged either the motherboard or the SATA cables and the system came up without a hitch.

Conclusion: This is an excellent system once assembled but don't underestimate the difficulty of putting it all together and the risk of causing expensive damage in the process. I really feared that I would have problems with the motherboard and/or SATA cables after all the pushing and shoving and squeezing that it took to get everything into place.

Regards, AB

2010_05_28_15_32_13_IMG_4833b-medium.jpg (185.43 KiB) Viewed 2850 times

Components (ex PC Case Gear) per GTO's recommendation:

Antec NSK2480B Case with 380W PSU Black $135.00
Corsair HX-650 Power Supply CMPSU-650HX $159.00
EVGA X58 SLI Micro mATX Motherboard $272.00
Intel Core i7 930 $359.00
Scythe Big Shuriken CPU Cooler $55.00
G.Skill F3-10666CL9T-6GBNQ (3x2GB) DDR3 $209.00
Gigabyte Radeon HD5770 1GB $189.00
Samsung SH-B083A Blu-ray DVD Combo Drive $134.00
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB WD1002FAEX $129.00
Western Digital Green 2TB WD20EARS $169.00

Total: $1810.00 plus shipping.

[gto-pontiac]

Now thats tight fit. i didn't expected to be that tight, but everyting works so no problem there.
hope the performance is up to your expectation. and have fun with it!. VM heaven