Mmn not much time with that talk looming. And how will you go on your scooter Charles? It's raining mud outside at the moment in Melbourne.

Here's some quick thoughts for the talk, feel free to use them in a spirit of both collaboration and reciprocity.

How about starting with some old school 19th Century genius

To paraphrase Marx: the development of the forces of production puts stresses on the relations of production. As productive forces (such as computers and every other tool) grow in potential they put pressure to change the relations that manage and enable them. If those relations begin to hold back the productive potential of the forces of production the relations themselves come under pressure and voila, a social and economic revolution ensues.

Capitalism has proved pretty good at proving Marx wrong, either because the idea is wrong or because capitalism has so far always managed to adapt to changes in the forces of production. Indeed Marx himself said capitalism was an engine for constant change through more and more innovation, ie increase in forces of production and their uses. But he thought at some point the rubber band would break, capitalism and its inequality and private property (didn't mean your house, meant things like factories, broadcast rights, etc.) would be in the way of further development.

I don't know if he was right or not but the current situation you describe certainly speaks of a world where the forces and relations are in the midst of change and are pulling against one another.

Info wants to be free, ideas travel faster than even before, the problem is to order and filter them rather than produce them. People also love to produce ideas and disseminate them and now, thanks to computers and IT, they are freer to do so. In fact people are so keen to publish that in market economic terms they are giving it away for free. That's one side of the coin.

On the other, the old capitalist order of relations still prevails, copyright over ideas and control by large companies over networks of distribution. Buy up the ideas and lobby politicians to protect your investment through the law. Capitalist relations of production. There are also new aggregators, like google, myspace and youtube, their power and money comes in an adaptation of the old media model, round up the product and make the money in delivering its consumers to advertisers. Still capitalist relations of production. In the past perhaps the media companies spent more producing the product, now these new media/software companies make their money from rounding it up and packaging it. They are taking advantage of those goodwill products, which they see as free, sort of how Australian settlers saw crown land, or the fishery industry sees the ocean even today.

However the new forces of IT give so much freedom to so many that they are constantly producing threats in the shape of open source, friendly collaboration etc that is capable of giving the same thing to consumers without the price in either advertising or dollars. Just done through goodwill, the spirit of collaboration. (my god is this a form of communism? Marx also said the new order would be pregnant in the old). Yet all these good-willed people still have to eat. And that is the problem you have long mused on.

I don't have an answer to it but there is a struggle going on. In terms of the history of capitalism we know that the owners of the old technology usually try to quickly buy up new technology using the capital reserves they already hold in order to preserve their position of oligopoly or market dominance. Either that or they demand that the new technology be fettered. At least fettered until they have a chance to buy it. A short history of Murdoch and Packer will yield clear examples of these trends.

These are just some quick thoughts, not leading to a definite conclusion, perhaps you or others can build on them.

Hi CW,

I have not checked your blog for some time as it appeared (by your silence) that you were going to let it wither and die. Had a look today and there are lots of posts so I thought I might respond.

It is good to see you back on the ether CW, I like your style, your humour. (is that your spell checker or mine?).

You again refer to the poor connection between your ideas and endeavours and the income it does not generate. I know that you spoke of the CFO but you know very well that the buck, or lack of it rests with you.

It is not for me to inquire as to your financial status, the Visa, the mortgage, the kids Uni fees, how many ways can you cook mince, what is your grand plan for your empire. But I do think it reasonable to ask you to ask yourself about how much is enough. If you have enough to feed, cloth and shelter yourself and your family, perhaps enough for a meal and a nice wine occasionally, how much more do you need?

The constant stress of "want" as opposed to need is a roadmap to a bypass or worse. I am not talking through my *rse here. I gave up the chase (well really the chase gave me up) about 20 years ago. My reward is that I am still alive.

Now back to your question "any Ideas"

About the PC users club, about collaboration?

The PC users club is simple. Things are born out of need or desire, they grow up, mature and then they die. Natural process. If we could invent the eternity pill we would stay alive. If the PC club could invent a new reason, a new market for its existence it would live on.

Collaboration. Unless it is of a personal nature, is a con. Look at wars and "God is on our side"
Look at the buzz words of shared goals, or ownership in relation to corporations. We benefit by feeling good and maybe a bonus. The corporation make millions. The same with brand loyalty, just a con.

In order to make money or make a club, you need to have something that others want, and, are willing to pay for.

I will crawl back into my cave now and see if I can light the fire with these 2 sticks otherwise I will have to raid the supermarket bin again.

Good to see you back CW.

Steven

Great to hear from both of you again, tflip and Steven. Seems like old times.

I've just traded the scooter in on a 500cc model - so obviously I'm not THAT broke yet (largely because not having a car has allowed me to make HUGE savings in fuel, parking, tolls, servicing, repairs etc) - and it allowed me to sail past all the traffic jams at a comparatively modest pace in total safety. And I didn't get too wet.

Then I used Melb PC's blog as a perfect example of how not to create a great blog. I found the evening quite depressing. I don't think there were 100 people at the meeting. I can remember 500 was a regular attendance, peaking at 1200 or so. And I'm hearing the same excuses I heard from the mob who ran the show when I decided to run for the executive and change the way things were done: people won't volunteer any more. Members aren't interested etc.

I really despair for Melb PC.

The president, Lyn Goodall, told the meeting that membership was down to 7500. When I left as president, it was around 12,300. It's been all downhill since then, and the decline has accelerated dramatically in the past few months.

If the committee doesn't take dramatic action, Melb PC looks certain to dwindle even further.
I'm still waiting for someone to show the sort of inspirational leadership and ideas and follow-through that you need to get people to commit their time and money and interest. They've got a much bigger base to build on than Peter Smith and I had when we ran as a team in those desperate years.

They could really use people like the stalwarts of the Bleeding Edge forum, who continue to make it a vital little community. Bless them all.

Melb PC should be making them an offer!

Charles it's always good to visit your blog. I was actually on campus last night but flat out adding/fixing content to a new website that others deemed should go live but that I think is not yet ready. Live it is however. I didn't leave for home until after 10pm. That said, if I'd realised where you were speaking I would have been tempted to come across. However I only realised where you had been when I went to the Melb PC site this morning.

Methinks you are little too jaded re audience size. For one thing the weather yesterday was something else, power blackouts everywhere, transport delayed etc. I'd say a credit to your pulling power to get 100.

I couldn't actually perceive the Melb PC site as a blog, is there a blog somewhere else? I'm sure as an insider and previous president you are full of ideas and also concern for where it is all going. Maybe one issue is that there are far less newbies these days, and many more people who can use the web to get what they need. Meeting face to face was very important to people who still found turning the computer on and getting a word document started an issue.

Having a forum on blogs, where newbies still abound, would seem to show some enterprise. Personally I think the two biggest issues in blogging (and they are true for websites too) are being noticed in the first place and then having good enough content,constantly renewed, to keep people coming back. In blogs that means users as well as the person running the blog. Hence the success of Bleeding edge, it was given a really good start because of your media profile, you had heaps extra to say and inform about once the blog was up, then the forums took off and now you are sharing the content production with some other interesting and informative writers.

Perhaps Melb PC needs some help, a strategy, for lifting its profile. I certainly found plenty of good stuff there once your post prompted me to look. That doesn't mean someone like yourself won't see heaps of (to you) obvious problems improvements that could/should be made, but I'm hoping you were gentle in your criticism, spirit of collaboration and all that.

And as to that 500cc motorscooter, at thst size is it still a scooter? I'm still using my bike for much transport (the long drought is good for something, yesterday was one of my very few not ride to work days) and still playing around with getting an electric one to complement it, and my aging body. Hillman cycles can retrofit an existing bike with a front wheel hub that will give you about 20kph on the flat before you pedal, maintainig 30kph or better by doing some work yourself should be easy. That said the Melbourne rental crisis may soon force me to relocate much further out and then maybe a scooter will be necessary.